Oil leak(s)


Mick O'Connor
 

Engine running sweet during ‘break in’ after top end overhaul.
Unfortunately have a small oil leak from push rod tube(s) to head or maybe the head bolt grub screw(s) on no. 2 & 4 ?
Both heads have oil under the rocker cover area, it’s not the rocker cover gasket. Could be one or all 4 tubes ?
Need to investigate to confirm.
New o rings installed at overhaul. Cyls1 & 3 dry.
Anyone had leaky grub screws or tubes ?

Mick


Rob Turk
 

Could be aywhere on the engine. May be the fuel pump, the oil pump, crankshaft oil seal, oil pressure sender, you name it. The air swirling through the cowl can take it from anywhere to the head surfaces. From there it always collects under the head cover as it's the lowest point especially in a tail dragger. It really doesn't have to come from that head or the rocker tubes. I have a minor leak at the oil pump (can't for the life of me get rid of it), and that oil always ends up on the lower side of the heads below the rocker covers. Not even enough to form a droplet but some oil collects in the groves. The leak is not enough to even register on the dipstick so I have accepted it as a fact of life..

Rob

On 4/18/2021 8:38 PM, Mick O'Connor via groups.io wrote:
Engine running sweet during ‘break in’ after top end overhaul.
Unfortunately have a small oil leak from push rod tube(s) to head or maybe the head bolt grub screw(s) on no. 2 & 4 ?
Both heads have oil under the rocker cover area, it’s not the rocker cover gasket. Could be one or all 4 tubes ?
Need to investigate to confirm.
New o rings installed at overhaul. Cyls1 & 3 dry.
Anyone had leaky grub screws or tubes ?

Mick




Jay Scheevel
 

Glad to here everything is running well. First place I would check is the seals on the rocker axles (o-rings). I have been unable to solve that pesky problem. No leaks anywhere, but I get slow leaking there and have wipe off from time to time.

Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@JabCamit.groups.io <main@JabCamit.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mick O'Connor via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2021 12:38 PM
To: JabCamit <main@jabcamit.groups.io>
Subject: [JabCamit] Oil leak(s)

Engine running sweet during ‘break in’ after top end overhaul.
Unfortunately have a small oil leak from push rod tube(s) to head or maybe the head bolt grub screw(s) on no. 2 & 4 ?
Both heads have oil under the rocker cover area, it’s not the rocker cover gasket. Could be one or all 4 tubes ?
Need to investigate to confirm.
New o rings installed at overhaul. Cyls1 & 3 dry.
Anyone had leaky grub screws or tubes ?

Mick


Mick O'Connor
 

Rob,
The oil is where you can run your finger along the lower edge of the head by the rocker cover on 2 & 4. The fuel pump is the other side of the engine !!!!!
I can use my little finger to feel the tips of the push rod tubes and the grub screw.
Oil No where else

On 18 Apr 2021, at 20:29, Jay Scheevel <jay@scheevel.com> wrote:

Glad to here everything is running well. First place I would check is the seals on the rocker axles (o-rings). I have been unable to solve that pesky problem. No leaks anywhere, but I get slow leaking there and have wipe off from time to time.

Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@JabCamit.groups.io <main@JabCamit.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mick O'Connor via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2021 12:38 PM
To: JabCamit <main@jabcamit.groups.io>
Subject: [JabCamit] Oil leak(s)

Engine running sweet during ‘break in’ after top end overhaul.
Unfortunately have a small oil leak from push rod tube(s) to head or maybe the head bolt grub screw(s) on no. 2 & 4 ?
Both heads have oil under the rocker cover area, it’s not the rocker cover gasket. Could be one or all 4 tubes ?
Need to investigate to confirm.
New o rings installed at overhaul. Cyls1 & 3 dry.
Anyone had leaky grub screws or tubes ?

Mick












Mick O'Connor
 

It may be a leaky tube o ring on cyl 2 and oil gets blown over to cyl 4
Mick

On 18 Apr 2021, at 20:35, Mick O'Connor via groups.io <mickoconnor909=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:

Rob,
The oil is where you can run your finger along the lower edge of the head by the rocker cover on 2 & 4. The fuel pump is the other side of the engine !!!!!
I can use my little finger to feel the tips of the push rod tubes and the grub screw.
Oil No where else

On 18 Apr 2021, at 20:29, Jay Scheevel <jay@scheevel.com> wrote:

Glad to here everything is running well. First place I would check is the seals on the rocker axles (o-rings). I have been unable to solve that pesky problem. No leaks anywhere, but I get slow leaking there and have wipe off from time to time.

Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@JabCamit.groups.io <main@JabCamit.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mick O'Connor via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2021 12:38 PM
To: JabCamit <main@jabcamit.groups.io>
Subject: [JabCamit] Oil leak(s)

Engine running sweet during ‘break in’ after top end overhaul.
Unfortunately have a small oil leak from push rod tube(s) to head or maybe the head bolt grub screw(s) on no. 2 & 4 ?
Both heads have oil under the rocker cover area, it’s not the rocker cover gasket. Could be one or all 4 tubes ?
Need to investigate to confirm.
New o rings installed at overhaul. Cyls1 & 3 dry.
Anyone had leaky grub screws or tubes ?

Mick
















Mick O'Connor
 

I’ve always had a leaky oil pump but I made my own gaskets and applied a smear of sealant, no leak at all !
The engine is super clean and dry and I’ve gone over iit and every nook and cranny, nothing except on 2 & 4.
More investigation

On 18 Apr 2021, at 19:57, Rob Turk <r.turk@rtist.nl> wrote:

Could be aywhere on the engine. May be the fuel pump, the oil pump, crankshaft oil seal, oil pressure sender, you name it. The air swirling through the cowl can take it from anywhere to the head surfaces. From there it always collects under the head cover as it's the lowest point especially in a tail dragger. It really doesn't have to come from that head or the rocker tubes. I have a minor leak at the oil pump (can't for the life of me get rid of it), and that oil always ends up on the lower side of the heads below the rocker covers. Not even enough to form a droplet but some oil collects in the groves. The leak is not enough to even register on the dipstick so I have accepted it as a fact of life..

Rob

On 4/18/2021 8:38 PM, Mick O'Connor via groups.io wrote:
Engine running sweet during ‘break in’ after top end overhaul.
Unfortunately have a small oil leak from push rod tube(s) to head or maybe the head bolt grub screw(s) on no. 2 & 4 ?
Both heads have oil under the rocker cover area, it’s not the rocker cover gasket. Could be one or all 4 tubes ?
Need to investigate to confirm.
New o rings installed at overhaul. Cyls1 & 3 dry.
Anyone had leaky grub screws or tubes ?

Mick








Rob Turk
 

I know. It sounds ridiculous. That's where I find my oil from the oil pump. I've used various methods to ensure the oil isn't coming from the heads themselves. The only leak is the oil pump. It ends up everywhere. If you are convinced it's on that side of the engine (#2 and 4), check the oil filter, oil pressure sender, oil cooler adapter etc. They are all on that side.

On 4/18/2021 9:35 PM, Mick O'Connor via groups.io wrote:
Rob,
The oil is where you can run your finger along the lower edge of the head by the rocker cover on 2 & 4. The fuel pump is the other side of the engine !!!!!
I can use my little finger to feel the tips of the push rod tubes and the grub screw.
Oil No where else

On 18 Apr 2021, at 20:29, Jay Scheevel <jay@scheevel.com> wrote:

Glad to here everything is running well. First place I would check is the seals on the rocker axles (o-rings). I have been unable to solve that pesky problem. No leaks anywhere, but I get slow leaking there and have wipe off from time to time.

Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@JabCamit.groups.io <main@JabCamit.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mick O'Connor via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2021 12:38 PM
To: JabCamit <main@jabcamit.groups.io>
Subject: [JabCamit] Oil leak(s)

Engine running sweet during ‘break in’ after top end overhaul.
Unfortunately have a small oil leak from push rod tube(s) to head or maybe the head bolt grub screw(s) on no. 2 & 4 ?
Both heads have oil under the rocker cover area, it’s not the rocker cover gasket. Could be one or all 4 tubes ?
Need to investigate to confirm.
New o rings installed at overhaul. Cyls1 & 3 dry.
Anyone had leaky grub screws or tubes ?

Mick














Rob Turk
 

What did you make your gaskets from if I may ask?

On 4/18/2021 9:49 PM, Mick O'Connor via groups.io wrote:
I’ve always had a leaky oil pump but I made my own gaskets and applied a smear of sealant, no leak at all !
The engine is super clean and dry and I’ve gone over iit and every nook and cranny, nothing except on 2 & 4.
More investigation

On 18 Apr 2021, at 19:57, Rob Turk <r.turk@rtist.nl> wrote:

Could be aywhere on the engine. May be the fuel pump, the oil pump, crankshaft oil seal, oil pressure sender, you name it. The air swirling through the cowl can take it from anywhere to the head surfaces. From there it always collects under the head cover as it's the lowest point especially in a tail dragger. It really doesn't have to come from that head or the rocker tubes. I have a minor leak at the oil pump (can't for the life of me get rid of it), and that oil always ends up on the lower side of the heads below the rocker covers. Not even enough to form a droplet but some oil collects in the groves. The leak is not enough to even register on the dipstick so I have accepted it as a fact of life..

Rob

On 4/18/2021 8:38 PM, Mick O'Connor via groups.io wrote:
Engine running sweet during ‘break in’ after top end overhaul.
Unfortunately have a small oil leak from push rod tube(s) to head or maybe the head bolt grub screw(s) on no. 2 & 4 ?
Both heads have oil under the rocker cover area, it’s not the rocker cover gasket. Could be one or all 4 tubes ?
Need to investigate to confirm.
New o rings installed at overhaul. Cyls1 & 3 dry.
Anyone had leaky grub screws or tubes ?

Mick









Mick O'Connor
 

Rob,
Will do.
Mick

On 18 Apr 2021, at 20:56, Rob Turk <r.turk@rtist.nl> wrote:

I know. It sounds ridiculous. That's where I find my oil from the oil pump. I've used various methods to ensure the oil isn't coming from the heads themselves. The only leak is the oil pump. It ends up everywhere. If you are convinced it's on that side of the engine (#2 and 4), check the oil filter, oil pressure sender, oil cooler adapter etc. They are all on that side.

On 4/18/2021 9:35 PM, Mick O'Connor via groups.io wrote:
Rob,
The oil is where you can run your finger along the lower edge of the head by the rocker cover on 2 & 4. The fuel pump is the other side of the engine !!!!!
I can use my little finger to feel the tips of the push rod tubes and the grub screw.
Oil No where else

On 18 Apr 2021, at 20:29, Jay Scheevel <jay@scheevel.com> wrote:

Glad to here everything is running well. First place I would check is the seals on the rocker axles (o-rings). I have been unable to solve that pesky problem. No leaks anywhere, but I get slow leaking there and have wipe off from time to time.

Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@JabCamit.groups.io <main@JabCamit.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mick O'Connor via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2021 12:38 PM
To: JabCamit <main@jabcamit.groups.io>
Subject: [JabCamit] Oil leak(s)

Engine running sweet during ‘break in’ after top end overhaul.
Unfortunately have a small oil leak from push rod tube(s) to head or maybe the head bolt grub screw(s) on no. 2 & 4 ?
Both heads have oil under the rocker cover area, it’s not the rocker cover gasket. Could be one or all 4 tubes ?
Need to investigate to confirm.
New o rings installed at overhaul. Cyls1 & 3 dry.
Anyone had leaky grub screws or tubes ?

Mick


















Mick O'Connor
 

Rob,
Of course you can !
I used a sheet of gasket paper, about 1mm thick. Used the plastic spacer as.a template. Spread a thin layer of 518 sealant on the gaskets.
2 hrs and dry as a bone !I
Mick

On 18 Apr 2021, at 20:58, Rob Turk <r.turk@rtist.nl> wrote:

What did you make your gaskets from if I may ask?

On 4/18/2021 9:49 PM, Mick O'Connor via groups.io wrote:
I’ve always had a leaky oil pump but I made my own gaskets and applied a smear of sealant, no leak at all !
The engine is super clean and dry and I’ve gone over iit and every nook and cranny, nothing except on 2 & 4.
More investigation

On 18 Apr 2021, at 19:57, Rob Turk <r.turk@rtist.nl> wrote:

Could be aywhere on the engine. May be the fuel pump, the oil pump, crankshaft oil seal, oil pressure sender, you name it. The air swirling through the cowl can take it from anywhere to the head surfaces. From there it always collects under the head cover as it's the lowest point especially in a tail dragger. It really doesn't have to come from that head or the rocker tubes. I have a minor leak at the oil pump (can't for the life of me get rid of it), and that oil always ends up on the lower side of the heads below the rocker covers. Not even enough to form a droplet but some oil collects in the groves. The leak is not enough to even register on the dipstick so I have accepted it as a fact of life..

Rob

On 4/18/2021 8:38 PM, Mick O'Connor via groups.io wrote:
Engine running sweet during ‘break in’ after top end overhaul.
Unfortunately have a small oil leak from push rod tube(s) to head or maybe the head bolt grub screw(s) on no. 2 & 4 ?
Both heads have oil under the rocker cover area, it’s not the rocker cover gasket. Could be one or all 4 tubes ?
Need to investigate to confirm.
New o rings installed at overhaul. Cyls1 & 3 dry.
Anyone had leaky grub screws or tubes ?

Mick













Mark Dunstone
 

Like Jay, I’d check the rocker shafts as well as the pushrod tubes.  I had a small leak from the rocker shafts on a freshly overhauled engine.....it actually stopped leaking itself after about ten hours...I assume the o ring may have moved a bit with a few hot/cold cycles.  Reducing crankcase pressure by opening out any restriction in the breather plumbing might also help.  Both my 2200 engines are dry, except for occasional drop caused by the incompetent old guy who checks the oil level before going for a fly.

On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 at 06:29, Mick O'Connor via groups.io <mickoconnor909=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
Rob,
Of course you can !
I used a sheet of gasket paper, about 1mm thick. Used the plastic spacer as.a template. Spread a thin layer of 518 sealant on the gaskets.
2 hrs and dry as a bone !I
Mick

> On 18 Apr 2021, at 20:58, Rob Turk <r.turk@...> wrote:
>
> What did you make your gaskets from if I may ask?
>
>> On 4/18/2021 9:49 PM, Mick O'Connor via groups.io wrote:
>> I’ve always had a leaky oil pump but I made my own gaskets and applied a smear of sealant, no leak at all !
>> The engine is super clean and dry and  I’ve  gone over iit and every nook and cranny, nothing except on 2 & 4.
>> More investigation
>>
>>> On 18 Apr 2021, at 19:57, Rob Turk <r.turk@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Could be aywhere on the engine. May be the fuel pump, the oil pump, crankshaft oil seal, oil pressure sender, you name it. The air swirling through the cowl can take it from anywhere to the head surfaces. From there it always collects under the head cover as it's the lowest point especially in a tail dragger. It really doesn't have to come from that head or the rocker tubes. I have a minor leak at the oil pump (can't for the life of me get rid of it), and that oil always ends up on the lower side of the heads below the rocker covers. Not even enough to form a droplet but some oil collects in the groves. The leak is not enough to even register on the dipstick so I have accepted it as a fact of life..
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>>> On 4/18/2021 8:38 PM, Mick O'Connor via groups.io wrote:
>>>> Engine running sweet during ‘break in’ after top end overhaul.
>>>> Unfortunately have a small oil leak from push rod tube(s) to head or maybe the head bolt grub screw(s) on no. 2 & 4 ?
>>>> Both heads have oil under the rocker cover area, it’s not the rocker cover gasket. Could be one or all 4 tubes ?
>>>> Need to investigate to confirm.
>>>> New o rings installed at overhaul. Cyls1 & 3 dry.
>>>> Anyone had leaky grub screws or tubes ?
>>>>
>>>> Mick
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>







jabcamit@...
 

A trick to find leaks is to clean the engine of all oil, allow to dry, run very  briefly then dust with (eg) talcum powder. The talc sticks to the oil. If it doesn't work at least your engine will not only sound but now also smell sweely.

BobP


Jay Scheevel
 

If you have a dye penetrant kit, for cracks. You can use the spray on the “developer” in the suspected areas and the oil leak point will show up in that after running.

 

Jay

 

From: main@JabCamit.groups.io <main@JabCamit.groups.io> On Behalf Of jabcamit@...
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 8:24 AM
To: main@JabCamit.groups.io
Subject: Re: [JabCamit] Oil leak(s)

 

A trick to find leaks is to clean the engine of all oil, allow to dry, run very  briefly then dust with (eg) talcum powder. The talc sticks to the oil. If it doesn't work at least your engine will not only sound but now also smell sweely.

BobP


joestephens4759@...
 

Talc foot spray


On Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 10:23 AM <jabcamit@...> wrote:
A trick to find leaks is to clean the engine of all oil, allow to dry, run very  briefly then dust with (eg) talcum powder. The talc sticks to the oil. If it doesn't work at least your engine will not only sound but now also smell sweely.

BobP


Mick O'Connor
 

Thoroughly cleaned suspect areas Removed scoops and ran engine up to temp.
Noted oil collecting on lower rear of each head. Oil seems to be coming from above (circled in phot 2).
The closest oil carrying item near is the oil feed T piece, but this new and after removing clips, looks good.
I’m resigned to removing the heads unless someone has a better idea.
No evidence of leaking pushrod tubes or oil feed pipe to T piece.
I’m flummoxed !
Mick

On 18 Apr 2021, at 19:38, Mick O'Connor via groups.io <mickoconnor909=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:

Engine running sweet during ‘break in’ after top end overhaul.
Unfortunately have a small oil leak from push rod tube(s) to head or maybe the head bolt grub screw(s) on no. 2 & 4 ?
Both heads have oil under the rocker cover area, it’s not the rocker cover gasket. Could be one or all 4 tubes ?
Need to investigate to confirm.
New o rings installed at overhaul. Cyls1 & 3 dry.
Anyone had leaky grub screws or tubes ?

Mick





Jay Scheevel
 

Really sounds like it is leaking from the rocker axles. That drips down the side of each head from the axle (middle of the head) and collects on the bottom of the head as you show in your picture. Clean around the axle and put some of the talcum powder or foot spray there, then investigate after flight.

Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@JabCamit.groups.io <main@JabCamit.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mick O'Connor via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2021 11:52 AM
To: main@jabcamit.groups.io
Subject: Re: [JabCamit] Oil leak(s)

Thoroughly cleaned suspect areas Removed scoops and ran engine up to temp.
Noted oil collecting on lower rear of each head. Oil seems to be coming from above (circled in phot 2).
The closest oil carrying item near is the oil feed T piece, but this new and after removing clips, looks good.
I’m resigned to removing the heads unless someone has a better idea.
No evidence of leaking pushrod tubes or oil feed pipe to T piece.
I’m flummoxed !
Mick






On 18 Apr 2021, at 19:38, Mick O'Connor via groups.io <mickoconnor909=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:

Engine running sweet during ‘break in’ after top end overhaul.
Unfortunately have a small oil leak from push rod tube(s) to head or maybe the head bolt grub screw(s) on no. 2 & 4 ?
Both heads have oil under the rocker cover area, it’s not the rocker cover gasket. Could be one or all 4 tubes ?
Need to investigate to confirm.
New o rings installed at overhaul. Cyls1 & 3 dry.
Anyone had leaky grub screws or tubes ?

Mick





Mick O'Connor
 

Done that, even stuffed tissue in each end of both rocker shafts and no oil leaking
Mick

On 21 Apr 2021, at 20:25, Jay Scheevel <jay@scheevel.com> wrote:

Really sounds like it is leaking from the rocker axles. That drips down the side of each head from the axle (middle of the head) and collects on the bottom of the head as you show in your picture. Clean around the axle and put some of the talcum powder or foot spray there, then investigate after flight.

Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@JabCamit.groups.io <main@JabCamit.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mick O'Connor via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2021 11:52 AM
To: main@jabcamit.groups.io
Subject: Re: [JabCamit] Oil leak(s)

Thoroughly cleaned suspect areas Removed scoops and ran engine up to temp.
Noted oil collecting on lower rear of each head. Oil seems to be coming from above (circled in phot 2).
The closest oil carrying item near is the oil feed T piece, but this new and after removing clips, looks good.
I’m resigned to removing the heads unless someone has a better idea.
No evidence of leaking pushrod tubes or oil feed pipe to T piece.
I’m flummoxed !
Mick






On 18 Apr 2021, at 19:38, Mick O'Connor via groups.io <mickoconnor909=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:

Engine running sweet during ‘break in’ after top end overhaul.
Unfortunately have a small oil leak from push rod tube(s) to head or maybe the head bolt grub screw(s) on no. 2 & 4 ?
Both heads have oil under the rocker cover area, it’s not the rocker cover gasket. Could be one or all 4 tubes ?
Need to investigate to confirm.
New o rings installed at overhaul. Cyls1 & 3 dry.
Anyone had leaky grub screws or tubes ?

Mick














Mark Dunstone
 

Mick, I was thinking rocker shafts too.  There are 3 other possibilities.  1. You already mentioned the rubber T.  2. The stainless tube on the head for the external oil feed might be leaking.   It’s only lightly pressed into the head. 3. Are your heads the ones with a rocker box breather hole drilled from between the fins on the top into the rocker box? These holes are small, around 1mm dia.  If they are those heads, oil might be coming from these holes.

I have these heads on one of my engines, but I converted them to internal pushrod oil feed.  I had to plug the external oil feed inlet (the tubes almost fell out) and the little breather holes.  There was evidence of oil leaking from the breather holes.  The overhaul manual lists which engine serials had these heads and there was a SB about drilling the holes....so it’s possible other heads may be holey too.

The external oil feed is low pressure due to a restrictor in the feed line and it just dribbles in and is then splashed around by the moving bits.


Mark Dunstone
 

I forgot to mention that my holy heads came with rocker covers that someone had brazed on a large brass nipple vent as well.  I had to grind them off and TIG up the covers.  It clearly was an attempt to fix something...maybe leaking oil or excessive rocker box/crankcase pressure??


Mick O'Connor
 

Mark,
No holes in my heads or covers (late solid lifter). It’s weird that this leak(s) have occurred straight after top end overhaul. I developed a leak from the rocker shaft on cyl one a few hours ago but new shaft O rings have sorted that. It’s annoying that the source is not obvious and seems to come from the T piece area. I’ll thoroughly clean the area again and run engine for a short time to see if I can locate it. It seems the oil in the rocker lube system is low pressure, so source of leak must quite big, so should be obvious 
Mick

On 21 Apr 2021, at 23:15, Mark Dunstone <mark.dunstone@...> wrote:

I forgot to mention that my holy heads came with rocker covers that someone had brazed on a large brass nipple vent as well.  I had to grind them off and TIG up the covers.  It clearly was an attempt to fix something...maybe leaking oil or excessive rocker box/crankcase pressure??