Topics

EarthX Battery


Jay Scheevel
 

Hi John,

 

I have two EarthX batteries. I am curious what problems you are having. Can you expand on that?  Thanks.

 

Jay

 

From: main@JabCamit.groups.io <main@JabCamit.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Miller via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2021 7:18 AM
To: main@JabCamit.groups.io
Subject: Re: [JabCamit] Cyl 1 head & piston

 

Mke:

When you remove the valves look closely at the point where the valve head it connected to the valve stem. Tow of my engines sucked exhaust valves at 1100 hours.

I went over the recommended TBO because the engine was functioning well and I was hoping I could provide Jabiru with an actuary that might allow them to extend the TBO to 1500 hours. This is how Rotax eventually got to 2000 hour TBO.

I have my CHT temps all worked out and now I am having EarthX battery issues.

John M


John Miller
 

Jay

This is my 2nd EarthX in 2 years. The 1st one was my fault and failed completely when I accidentally shorted it.

This one may still be under the 2 year warranty. I'll have to check my aircraft log to see when I installed it. Here's the situation.

Temps here in SoCal aren't freezing, but re in the low 40s. When I try to start the engine turned only one blade. Then each time I would try the battery would heat up and crank better until it fianlly started with the help of spray start.

Then when flying the pattern checking my CHTs I got a warning from my GRT EIS that voltage had dropped. 

I landed and checked the battery and say the fault light flash 5 seconds on and 5 seconds off which happens when the voltage gets low.

I put on my Battery Tender Jr and it took a long time to get back up to 80%. It never reached 13.2. It seems stuck at 12.85V.

I left it on the charger and will check it Monday.

I also changed out the regulator and can see it putting out over 13.2 V. However, when running the engine I don't see the voltage increasing like  it normally did.

I watched a You Tube video of a guy taking the battery apart and was surprised to see that the actual battery gut only fill less than half of the internal space in the battery outside box. So if I have to replace the battery I will get the 680C which is much smaller with the same stats. OUCH! Another $379.00.

I'll let you know what I find Monday.

John M


Jay Scheevel
 

Hi John,

 

Two things you may want to check. One is the cable to the starter. I had what I thought was a weak starter in an older Cherokee that I owned. Had new charged battery but would not turn the starter. Bought a SkyTek starter that said you cannot put in a plane with the aluminum cable, which mine had. I spent $500 on the stc’d copper cable replacement cabling. Pulled out he old cable and found it had chafed and nearly burned through where is bent around a bulkhead. The new cable made the old starter perform perfectly, so I sold the SkyTec and problem was solved.

 

Other item, you already zero’d in on. The regulator is probably shot. The type of fixed magnet alternator that is on the Jabiru is brutal on regulators, and even a good regulator will allow the occasional spike and ripple current to reach the battery, which in turn is hard on the earthx battery protection circuit. 14 V is the target for charging. If you aren’t reaching that, you are not charging the battery. I would suggest putting a large capacitor on the charging circuit to damp out the spikes.

 

Jay

 

From: main@JabCamit.groups.io <main@JabCamit.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Miller via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2021 9:19 AM
To: main@JabCamit.groups.io
Subject: Re: [JabCamit] EarthX Battery

 

Jay

This is my 2nd EarthX in 2 years. The 1st one was my fault and failed completely when I accidentally shorted it.

This one may still be under the 2 year warranty. I'll have to check my aircraft log to see when I installed it. Here's the situation.

Temps here in SoCal aren't freezing, but re in the low 40s. When I try to start the engine turned only one blade. Then each time I would try the battery would heat up and crank better until it fianlly started with the help of spray start.

Then when flying the pattern checking my CHTs I got a warning from my GRT EIS that voltage had dropped. 

I landed and checked the battery and say the fault light flash 5 seconds on and 5 seconds off which happens when the voltage gets low.

I put on my Battery Tender Jr and it took a long time to get back up to 80%. It never reached 13.2. It seems stuck at 12.85V.

I left it on the charger and will check it Monday.

I also changed out the regulator and can see it putting out over 13.2 V. However, when running the engine I don't see the voltage increasing like  it normally did.

I watched a You Tube video of a guy taking the battery apart and was surprised to see that the actual battery gut only fill less than half of the internal space in the battery outside box. So if I have to replace the battery I will get the 680C which is much smaller with the same stats. OUCH! Another $379.00.

I'll let you know what I find Monday.

John M


Jim Chuk
 

Wow, $379 for a battery.  Last one I put in the Avid, cost about $30.  (lawn tractor battery)  Granted it weighs about 10 lbs more, but being as how it's mounted as far back as I could put it, my CG was helped by it.  JImChuk


On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 10:36 AM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Hi John,

 

Two things you may want to check. One is the cable to the starter. I had what I thought was a weak starter in an older Cherokee that I owned. Had new charged battery but would not turn the starter. Bought a SkyTek starter that said you cannot put in a plane with the aluminum cable, which mine had. I spent $500 on the stc’d copper cable replacement cabling. Pulled out he old cable and found it had chafed and nearly burned through where is bent around a bulkhead. The new cable made the old starter perform perfectly, so I sold the SkyTec and problem was solved.

 

Other item, you already zero’d in on. The regulator is probably shot. The type of fixed magnet alternator that is on the Jabiru is brutal on regulators, and even a good regulator will allow the occasional spike and ripple current to reach the battery, which in turn is hard on the earthx battery protection circuit. 14 V is the target for charging. If you aren’t reaching that, you are not charging the battery. I would suggest putting a large capacitor on the charging circuit to damp out the spikes.

 

Jay

 

From: main@JabCamit.groups.io <main@JabCamit.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Miller via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2021 9:19 AM
To: main@JabCamit.groups.io
Subject: Re: [JabCamit] EarthX Battery

 

Jay

This is my 2nd EarthX in 2 years. The 1st one was my fault and failed completely when I accidentally shorted it.

This one may still be under the 2 year warranty. I'll have to check my aircraft log to see when I installed it. Here's the situation.

Temps here in SoCal aren't freezing, but re in the low 40s. When I try to start the engine turned only one blade. Then each time I would try the battery would heat up and crank better until it fianlly started with the help of spray start.

Then when flying the pattern checking my CHTs I got a warning from my GRT EIS that voltage had dropped. 

I landed and checked the battery and say the fault light flash 5 seconds on and 5 seconds off which happens when the voltage gets low.

I put on my Battery Tender Jr and it took a long time to get back up to 80%. It never reached 13.2. It seems stuck at 12.85V.

I left it on the charger and will check it Monday.

I also changed out the regulator and can see it putting out over 13.2 V. However, when running the engine I don't see the voltage increasing like  it normally did.

I watched a You Tube video of a guy taking the battery apart and was surprised to see that the actual battery gut only fill less than half of the internal space in the battery outside box. So if I have to replace the battery I will get the 680C which is much smaller with the same stats. OUCH! Another $379.00.

I'll let you know what I find Monday.

John M


David Amsler
 

John,

"Battery Tenders" usually do not put out enough voltage to charge Lithium Ion batteries. Check EarthEX suggested battery charger list.

Never had the slow starting problem you have encountered with my earthEx, was so powerful a start, even when in the 30s that I became concerned for the health of the flywheel bolts.  Do you have a heavy link connecting back end of starter to engine ground ?

David A.

On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 11:19 AM John Miller via groups.io <skypics234=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Jay

This is my 2nd EarthX in 2 years. The 1st one was my fault and failed completely when I accidentally shorted it.

This one may still be under the 2 year warranty. I'll have to check my aircraft log to see when I installed it. Here's the situation.

Temps here in SoCal aren't freezing, but re in the low 40s. When I try to start the engine turned only one blade. Then each time I would try the battery would heat up and crank better until it fianlly started with the help of spray start.

Then when flying the pattern checking my CHTs I got a warning from my GRT EIS that voltage had dropped. 

I landed and checked the battery and say the fault light flash 5 seconds on and 5 seconds off which happens when the voltage gets low.

I put on my Battery Tender Jr and it took a long time to get back up to 80%. It never reached 13.2. It seems stuck at 12.85V.

I left it on the charger and will check it Monday.

I also changed out the regulator and can see it putting out over 13.2 V. However, when running the engine I don't see the voltage increasing like  it normally did.

I watched a You Tube video of a guy taking the battery apart and was surprised to see that the actual battery gut only fill less than half of the internal space in the battery outside box. So if I have to replace the battery I will get the 680C which is much smaller with the same stats. OUCH! Another $379.00.

I'll let you know what I find Monday.

John M


John Miller
 

Jay

Cable is good. New engine.

Regulator is good putting out 13.4 at just above idle. Alternator is supplying plenty  AC.

I even attached #4 cable from engine ground to the back of the starter hold together bolts.

John M



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
Date: 1/31/21 8:36 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: main@JabCamit.groups.io
Subject: Re: [JabCamit] EarthX Battery

Hi John,

 

Two things you may want to check. One is the cable to the starter. I had what I thought was a weak starter in an older Cherokee that I owned. Had new charged battery but would not turn the starter. Bought a SkyTek starter that said you cannot put in a plane with the aluminum cable, which mine had. I spent $500 on the stc’d copper cable replacement cabling. Pulled out he old cable and found it had chafed and nearly burned through where is bent around a bulkhead. The new cable made the old starter perform perfectly, so I sold the SkyTec and problem was solved.

 

Other item, you already zero’d in on. The regulator is probably shot. The type of fixed magnet alternator that is on the Jabiru is brutal on regulators, and even a good regulator will allow the occasional spike and ripple current to reach the battery, which in turn is hard on the earthx battery protection circuit. 14 V is the target for charging. If you aren’t reaching that, you are not charging the battery. I would suggest putting a large capacitor on the charging circuit to damp out the spikes.

 

Jay

 

From: main@JabCamit.groups.io <main@JabCamit.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Miller via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2021 9:19 AM
To: main@JabCamit.groups.io
Subject: Re: [JabCamit] EarthX Battery

 

Jay

This is my 2nd EarthX in 2 years. The 1st one was my fault and failed completely when I accidentally shorted it.

This one may still be under the 2 year warranty. I'll have to check my aircraft log to see when I installed it. Here's the situation.

Temps here in SoCal aren't freezing, but re in the low 40s. When I try to start the engine turned only one blade. Then each time I would try the battery would heat up and crank better until it fianlly started with the help of spray start.

Then when flying the pattern checking my CHTs I got a warning from my GRT EIS that voltage had dropped. 

I landed and checked the battery and say the fault light flash 5 seconds on and 5 seconds off which happens when the voltage gets low.

I put on my Battery Tender Jr and it took a long time to get back up to 80%. It never reached 13.2. It seems stuck at 12.85V.

I left it on the charger and will check it Monday.

I also changed out the regulator and can see it putting out over 13.2 V. However, when running the engine I don't see the voltage increasing like  it normally did.

I watched a You Tube video of a guy taking the battery apart and was surprised to see that the actual battery gut only fill less than half of the internal space in the battery outside box. So if I have to replace the battery I will get the 680C which is much smaller with the same stats. OUCH! Another $379.00.

I'll let you know what I find Monday.

John M


John Miller
 

Yeah Jim. There are alternates.

However, when working well the EarthX kicks ass.

John M



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Jim Chuk <avidflyer6014@...>
Date: 1/31/21 10:31 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: main@jabcamit.groups.io
Subject: Re: [JabCamit] EarthX Battery

Wow, $379 for a battery.  Last one I put in the Avid, cost about $30.  (lawn tractor battery)  Granted it weighs about 10 lbs more, but being as how it's mounted as far back as I could put it, my CG was helped by it.  JImChuk

On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 10:36 AM Jay Scheevel <jay@...> wrote:

Hi John,

 

Two things you may want to check. One is the cable to the starter. I had what I thought was a weak starter in an older Cherokee that I owned. Had new charged battery but would not turn the starter. Bought a SkyTek starter that said you cannot put in a plane with the aluminum cable, which mine had. I spent $500 on the stc’d copper cable replacement cabling. Pulled out he old cable and found it had chafed and nearly burned through where is bent around a bulkhead. The new cable made the old starter perform perfectly, so I sold the SkyTec and problem was solved.

 

Other item, you already zero’d in on. The regulator is probably shot. The type of fixed magnet alternator that is on the Jabiru is brutal on regulators, and even a good regulator will allow the occasional spike and ripple current to reach the battery, which in turn is hard on the earthx battery protection circuit. 14 V is the target for charging. If you aren’t reaching that, you are not charging the battery. I would suggest putting a large capacitor on the charging circuit to damp out the spikes.

 

Jay

 

From: main@JabCamit.groups.io <main@JabCamit.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Miller via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2021 9:19 AM
To: main@JabCamit.groups.io
Subject: Re: [JabCamit] EarthX Battery

 

Jay

This is my 2nd EarthX in 2 years. The 1st one was my fault and failed completely when I accidentally shorted it.

This one may still be under the 2 year warranty. I'll have to check my aircraft log to see when I installed it. Here's the situation.

Temps here in SoCal aren't freezing, but re in the low 40s. When I try to start the engine turned only one blade. Then each time I would try the battery would heat up and crank better until it fianlly started with the help of spray start.

Then when flying the pattern checking my CHTs I got a warning from my GRT EIS that voltage had dropped. 

I landed and checked the battery and say the fault light flash 5 seconds on and 5 seconds off which happens when the voltage gets low.

I put on my Battery Tender Jr and it took a long time to get back up to 80%. It never reached 13.2. It seems stuck at 12.85V.

I left it on the charger and will check it Monday.

I also changed out the regulator and can see it putting out over 13.2 V. However, when running the engine I don't see the voltage increasing like  it normally did.

I watched a You Tube video of a guy taking the battery apart and was surprised to see that the actual battery gut only fill less than half of the internal space in the battery outside box. So if I have to replace the battery I will get the 680C which is much smaller with the same stats. OUCH! Another $379.00.

I'll let you know what I find Monday.

John M


John Miller
 

Dave

The battery tender Jr was recommended by Earthx.

John M

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: David Amsler <EnergyHawk@...>
Date: 1/31/21 10:31 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: main@jabcamit.groups.io
Subject: Re: [JabCamit] EarthX Battery

John,

"Battery Tenders" usually do not put out enough voltage to charge Lithium Ion batteries. Check EarthEX suggested battery charger list.

Never had the slow starting problem you have encountered with my earthEx, was so powerful a start, even when in the 30s that I became concerned for the health of the flywheel bolts.  Do you have a heavy link connecting back end of starter to engine ground ?

David A.

On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 11:19 AM John Miller via groups.io <skypics234=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Jay

This is my 2nd EarthX in 2 years. The 1st one was my fault and failed completely when I accidentally shorted it.

This one may still be under the 2 year warranty. I'll have to check my aircraft log to see when I installed it. Here's the situation.

Temps here in SoCal aren't freezing, but re in the low 40s. When I try to start the engine turned only one blade. Then each time I would try the battery would heat up and crank better until it fianlly started with the help of spray start.

Then when flying the pattern checking my CHTs I got a warning from my GRT EIS that voltage had dropped. 

I landed and checked the battery and say the fault light flash 5 seconds on and 5 seconds off which happens when the voltage gets low.

I put on my Battery Tender Jr and it took a long time to get back up to 80%. It never reached 13.2. It seems stuck at 12.85V.

I left it on the charger and will check it Monday.

I also changed out the regulator and can see it putting out over 13.2 V. However, when running the engine I don't see the voltage increasing like  it normally did.

I watched a You Tube video of a guy taking the battery apart and was surprised to see that the actual battery gut only fill less than half of the internal space in the battery outside box. So if I have to replace the battery I will get the 680C which is much smaller with the same stats. OUCH! Another $379.00.

I'll let you know what I find Monday.

John M


Jay Scheevel
 

Hi John,

 

That voltage is not high enough to charge the LiFePo battery (EarthX is that type). Unless the voltage is higher than 13.9 you will not get a full charge. My regulator is set to 14.2 VDC.

 

Jay

 

From: main@JabCamit.groups.io <main@JabCamit.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Miller via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2021 11:33 AM
To: main@JabCamit.groups.io
Subject: Re: [JabCamit] EarthX Battery

 

Jay

 

Cable is good. New engine.

 

Regulator is good putting out 13.4 at just above idle. Alternator is supplying plenty  AC.

 

I even attached #4 cable from engine ground to the back of the starter hold together bolts.

 

John M

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Jay Scheevel <jay@...>

Date: 1/31/21 8:36 AM (GMT-08:00)

Subject: Re: [JabCamit] EarthX Battery

 

Hi John,

 

Two things you may want to check. One is the cable to the starter. I had what I thought was a weak starter in an older Cherokee that I owned. Had new charged battery but would not turn the starter. Bought a SkyTek starter that said you cannot put in a plane with the aluminum cable, which mine had. I spent $500 on the stc’d copper cable replacement cabling. Pulled out he old cable and found it had chafed and nearly burned through where is bent around a bulkhead. The new cable made the old starter perform perfectly, so I sold the SkyTec and problem was solved.

 

Other item, you already zero’d in on. The regulator is probably shot. The type of fixed magnet alternator that is on the Jabiru is brutal on regulators, and even a good regulator will allow the occasional spike and ripple current to reach the battery, which in turn is hard on the earthx battery protection circuit. 14 V is the target for charging. If you aren’t reaching that, you are not charging the battery. I would suggest putting a large capacitor on the charging circuit to damp out the spikes.

 

Jay

 

From: main@JabCamit.groups.io <main@JabCamit.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Miller via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2021 9:19 AM
To: main@JabCamit.groups.io
Subject: Re: [JabCamit] EarthX Battery

 

Jay

This is my 2nd EarthX in 2 years. The 1st one was my fault and failed completely when I accidentally shorted it.

This one may still be under the 2 year warranty. I'll have to check my aircraft log to see when I installed it. Here's the situation.

Temps here in SoCal aren't freezing, but re in the low 40s. When I try to start the engine turned only one blade. Then each time I would try the battery would heat up and crank better until it fianlly started with the help of spray start.

Then when flying the pattern checking my CHTs I got a warning from my GRT EIS that voltage had dropped. 

I landed and checked the battery and say the fault light flash 5 seconds on and 5 seconds off which happens when the voltage gets low.

I put on my Battery Tender Jr and it took a long time to get back up to 80%. It never reached 13.2. It seems stuck at 12.85V.

I left it on the charger and will check it Monday.

I also changed out the regulator and can see it putting out over 13.2 V. However, when running the engine I don't see the voltage increasing like  it normally did.

I watched a You Tube video of a guy taking the battery apart and was surprised to see that the actual battery gut only fill less than half of the internal space in the battery outside box. So if I have to replace the battery I will get the 680C which is much smaller with the same stats. OUCH! Another $379.00.

I'll let you know what I find Monday.

John M


glen english LIST
 

Can someone please post  me a link for this EarthX battery, I am curious of the problems.

On 1/02/2021 3:19 am, John Miller via groups.io wrote:
Jay

This is my 2nd EarthX in 2 years. The 1st one was my fault and failed completely when I accidentally shorted it.

This one may still be under the 2 year warranty. I'll have to check my aircraft log to see when I installed it. Here's the situation.


John Miller
 

Good news!

After letting it charge on the Batter Tender Jr. The batter was up to 13.4 and the engine started right up with OAT at low 50s.

I ran the engine while monitoring the voltage indication on my Dynon. 

I did this with no avionics on. The voltage drop at 1500 RPM.en turned on avionics and as usual saw about a .1-,2 vots.

Took it up and while climbing voltage went to 14.6 and then in cruise it dropped slightly to 13.4 and stayed there. So it's OK...for now.

I believe there is a slight chance that a loose voltage regulator sense wire touched something it shouldn't have.

Many of us did a lot of searching on this battery and some have come away with less confidence inclding me.

I will most likely go back to the Odyssey and keep the EarthX in my baggage compartment  as back up for when I'm in the back country strips.

John M


glen english LIST
 

Caution

With the the lithium phosphate battery, and the stock jab regulator ,
and indeed many other regulators and LOW battery voltage, it is possible to over dissipate the regulator and the alternator stator.

solution : Put a 15A inline CB in series with one of the AC wires between the stator and the regulator.

this will reduce the duty cycle at high loads, allowing the regulator and stator to cool down.

why does this happen ?- the Lithium Phosphate battery has a very low internal resistance and substantial 10 hour capacity..

Jab have started doing this with their Gen4 kit.

-glen

On 2/1/2021 10:39 AM, John Miller via groups.io wrote:
Good news!
After letting it charge on the Batter Tender Jr. The batter was up to 13.4 and the engine started right up with OAT at low 50s.
I ran the engine while


Jay Scheevel
 

Hi John,

 

You still need to have the voltage around 14 volts in flight (even cruise), or the battery will slowly discharge. 13.9 volts is the topped up voltage for the EarthX.

 

Here are the specs from the EarthX literature. Have a look at the line that says “Standard Charge Voltage”. Do you have an ammeter to see which way the current is going (into the battery or out of it)?.

Here is a snap of my EFIS in cruise (Battery Volts and Amps are in the center on bar graphs). Positive amps on my ammeter means that the battery is either charged or is currently charging with the alternator is working properly. When the alternator is off or not working the ammeter goes to zero and I get a warning announcement,. From that time everything is running on the batteries and I have to start looking for an airport (It should run about 1.5 hours on charged batteries and no alternator current).  

 

The 14 amps is my standard current draw with all of my electrical goodies turned on and batteries fully charged.

 

Jay

 

From: main@JabCamit.groups.io <main@JabCamit.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Miller via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2021 4:40 PM
To: main@JabCamit.groups.io
Subject: Re: [JabCamit] EarthX Battery

 

Good news!

After letting it charge on the Batter Tender Jr. The batter was up to 13.4 and the engine started right up with OAT at low 50s.

I ran the engine while monitoring the voltage indication on my Dynon. 

I did this with no avionics on. The voltage drop at 1500 RPM.en turned on avionics and as usual saw about a .1-,2 vots.

Took it up and while climbing voltage went to 14.6 and then in cruise it dropped slightly to 13.4 and stayed there. So it's OK...for now.

I believe there is a slight chance that a loose voltage regulator sense wire touched something it shouldn't have.

Many of us did a lot of searching on this battery and some have come away with less confidence inclding me.

I will most likely go back to the Odyssey and keep the EarthX in my baggage compartment  as back up for when I'm in the back country strips.

John M


glen english LIST
 

Jay saud : "You still need to have the voltage around 14 volts in flight (even cruise), "

Not true... suggest 13.4 Max - see below.

between 3.30V per cell (13V) and 3.65V (14.6V) per cell this is approx topping off voltage under charge.

3.25V to 3.35V float is high enough for the battery to maintain near 100% charge.

Too high and you risk OVERCHARGING some cells because unless there is an inbuilt active balancing , some cells will be lower than others, leading to some being overcharged and some undercharged.
That is BAD.
So, 3.35 to 3.4 is a better compromise - not getting the last 3% and not damaging cells.


Suggest 13.4V if it can be set.

Dont forget the regulator needs ideally to go to the battery terminals

Dont forget the 15A CB in series with the AC winding on most regs

yes I do this for a livign :-) :-)

On 2/1/2021 12:00 PM, Jay Scheevel wrote:
You still need to have the voltage around 14 volts in flight (even cruise),


Jay Scheevel
 

I am afraid I must disagree with you, Glen.

What you are advocating CONTRADICTS the operating voltages that are recommended by the manufacturer, EarthX. You are probably thinking of batteries that do not have balancing circuitry built in. EarthX has that circuitry built in, as well as over voltage and undervoltage crowbar protection. In fact they have two such systems for redundancy in each battery. I am attaching the spec sheet that came with my batteries for you to refer to.

Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: main@JabCamit.groups.io <main@JabCamit.groups.io> On Behalf Of glen english LIST
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2021 6:10 PM
To: main@JabCamit.groups.io
Subject: Re: [JabCamit] EarthX Battery

Jay saud : "You still need to have the voltage around 14 volts in flight (even cruise), "

Not true... suggest 13.4 Max - see below.

between 3.30V per cell (13V) and 3.65V (14.6V) per cell this is approx topping off voltage under charge.

3.25V to 3.35V float is high enough for the battery to maintain near 100% charge.

Too high and you risk OVERCHARGING some cells because unless there is an inbuilt active balancing , some cells will be lower than others, leading to some being overcharged and some undercharged.
That is BAD.
So, 3.35 to 3.4 is a better compromise - not getting the last 3% and not damaging cells.


Suggest 13.4V if it can be set.

Dont forget the regulator needs ideally to go to the battery terminals

Dont forget the 15A CB in series with the AC winding on most regs

yes I do this for a livign :-) :-)


On 2/1/2021 12:00 PM, Jay Scheevel wrote:
You still need to have the voltage around 14 volts in flight (even
cruise),


glen english LIST
 

That's OK, you can disagree with me. It's a free world.

reasons : This is NOT cyclic charge- discharge charge-discharge usage.
This is float .

look at the "discharge chaarcteristics"- note the knee about 13.4V.

The difference between charging to 14.6 and 13.5 is the last 15% takes about 20x longer.

The thing is, keeping the battery up there at 3.65V reduces its lifespan, because of the higher activation engergy. together with the high engine bay temperatures...------Hence the float compromise of 13.4V to 13.6V if you want to push a bit more in.

Suggest go ask the manufacturer what their long term voltage they should be floated at for temp = 50 deg C.

regardless of the internal facilities of that battery, I suggest 13.4 to 13.6 max float in that sort of environment, allows for variations in the system.

-glen

On 2/1/2021 12:22 PM, Jay Scheevel wrote:
I am afraid I must disagree with you, Glen.
What you are advocating CONTRADICTS the operating voltages that are recommended by the manufacturer, EarthX. You are probably thinking of batteries that do not have balancing circuitry built in. EarthX has that circuitry built in, as well as over voltage and undervoltage crowbar protection. In fact they have two such systems for redundancy in each battery. I am attaching the spec sheet that came with my batteries for you to refer to.


Ron Milan
 

Jay, John, and Others:  I have been  running  a Deltran  Battery Tender Lithium Iron Phosphate battery for over two years now.  I have had NO issues---so far.  I have a cruise voltage of 13.9-14.1 volts and am using the stock 20 amp permanent magnet JABIRU charging system.  I do have a large capacitor installed in my charging system.  

I can tell you all, without ANY reservation that my battery and starter will start the engine down to ~40ºF.  I can also assure you that there is a HUGE cranking difference at said 40ºF  compared to warmer temperatures.  I try to not start my plane when it is colder than 40º F without preheating the engine.  It is hard on our little air cooled JABIRU engines to start them when they are really cold  (we will leave that discussion for another post).  I have no feedback on starting the engine at temperatures <40ºF.  

I always have the plane hooked to a shore line battery tender---disconnected just prior to rolling the plane out of the hanger for starting- hanger is obviously unheated.  I always pull the prop through 12-13 blades prior to getting in my cockpit to start the engine.  When it is really cold, I turn on the fuel and prime the engine prior to pulling the engine through---obviously I verify that BOTH mag switches are off.  It would be VERY difficult if not impossible to pull the JABIRU through fast enough to excite our electronic mags---cranking RPM is VERY important but TAKE NO UN-NECESSARY CHANCES!

I  feel that the Li Fe PO 4 batteries are superior to lead acid batteries (AGM or other) for our little birds.  Unarguably lighter, with higher output density, much lower internal resistance, reasonably good cold cranking reserve, LAST longer (usually) and the big negative---ALWAYS COST MORE!

Your mileage and results may vary but so far for me---!

Ron


-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
To: main@JabCamit.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Jan 31, 2021 8:00 pm
Subject: Re: [JabCamit] EarthX Battery

Hi John,
 
You still need to have the voltage around 14 volts in flight (even cruise), or the battery will slowly discharge. 13.9 volts is the topped up voltage for the EarthX.
 
Here are the specs from the EarthX literature. Have a look at the line that says “Standard Charge Voltage”. Do you have an ammeter to see which way the current is going (into the battery or out of it)?.
Here is a snap of my EFIS in cruise (Battery Volts and Amps are in the center on bar graphs). Positive amps on my ammeter means that the battery is either charged or is currently charging with the alternator is working properly. When the alternator is off or not working the ammeter goes to zero and I get a warning announcement,. From that time everything is running on the batteries and I have to start looking for an airport (It should run about 1.5 hours on charged batteries and no alternator current).  
 
The 14 amps is my standard current draw with all of my electrical goodies turned on and batteries fully charged.
 
Jay
 
From: main@JabCamit.groups.io <main@JabCamit.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Miller via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2021 4:40 PM
To: main@JabCamit.groups.io
Subject: Re: [JabCamit] EarthX Battery
 
Good news!

After letting it charge on the Batter Tender Jr. The batter was up to 13.4 and the engine started right up with OAT at low 50s.

I ran the engine while monitoring the voltage indication on my Dynon. 

I did this with no avionics on. The voltage drop at 1500 RPM.en turned on avionics and as usual saw about a .1-,2 vots.

Took it up and while climbing voltage went to 14.6 and then in cruise it dropped slightly to 13.4 and stayed there. So it's OK...for now.

I believe there is a slight chance that a loose voltage regulator sense wire touched something it shouldn't have.

Many of us did a lot of searching on this battery and some have come away with less confidence inclding me.

I will most likely go back to the Odyssey and keep the EarthX in my baggage compartment  as back up for when I'm in the back country strips.

John M


glen english LIST
 

Ron, yes, Lead acid batteries are crap. even more-so at low temperatures. but they do have good cranking current for their size.

again- for lithoum phosphate :

just watch the maximum charge rate. you will over dissipate your stator without current limit (17A CB)

slowly cooking your alternator stator.

this is because lead acid batteriues have bugger all capacity. if flat, the charge system will dumps a heap in and in a few minutes 90% will be done.

But the LFP if will just drink and drink and drink until at least 30% full... and this sustained heavy drinking may over dissipate your charging system, depending on how thick the wiring is...

anyway nuff said, I have said my bit.

glen

On 2/1/2021 12:35 PM, Ron Milan via groups.io wrote:
Jay, John, and Others:  I have been  running  a Deltran  Battery Tender Lithium Iron Phosphate battery for over two years now.  I have had NO issues---so far.  I have a cruise voltage of 13.9-14.1 volts and am using the stock 20 amp permanent magnet JABIRU charging syste


Jay Scheevel
 

I have been running mine for two years now and I have no complaints or problems with them, running at 14+ volts. I do not charge them between flights (sometimes up to a month), and have not had them fail to turn over the engine very strongly in all weather and temps (I do preheat my engine to minimum 60F), but the battery boxes are behind the cockpit, so they do not get preheat. They maintain enough voltage during the starter operation that the EFIS never falls below minimum voltage, so that is a plus, since I do not have a backup battery for the EFIS. All things considered, I would not change batteries, and would recommend them to others.

 

Jay

 

From: main@JabCamit.groups.io <main@JabCamit.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Milan via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2021 6:35 PM
To: main@JabCamit.groups.io
Subject: Re: [JabCamit] EarthX Battery

 

Jay, John, and Others:  I have been  running  a Deltran  Battery Tender Lithium Iron Phosphate battery for over two years now.  I have had NO issues---so far.  I have a cruise voltage of 13.9-14.1 volts and am using the stock 20 amp permanent magnet JABIRU charging system.  I do have a large capacitor installed in my charging system.  

 

I can tell you all, without ANY reservation that my battery and starter will start the engine down to ~40ºF.  I can also assure you that there is a HUGE cranking difference at said 40ºF  compared to warmer temperatures.  I try to not start my plane when it is colder than 40º F without preheating the engine.  It is hard on our little air cooled JABIRU engines to start them when they are really cold  (we will leave that discussion for another post).  I have no feedback on starting the engine at temperatures <40ºF.  

 

I always have the plane hooked to a shore line battery tender---disconnected just prior to rolling the plane out of the hanger for starting- hanger is obviously unheated.  I always pull the prop through 12-13 blades prior to getting in my cockpit to start the engine.  When it is really cold, I turn on the fuel and prime the engine prior to pulling the engine through---obviously I verify that BOTH mag switches are off.  It would be VERY difficult if not impossible to pull the JABIRU through fast enough to excite our electronic mags---cranking RPM is VERY important but TAKE NO UN-NECESSARY CHANCES!

 

I  feel that the Li Fe PO 4 batteries are superior to lead acid batteries (AGM or other) for our little birds.  Unarguably lighter, with higher output density, much lower internal resistance, reasonably good cold cranking reserve, LAST longer (usually) and the big negative---ALWAYS COST MORE!

 

Your mileage and results may vary but so far for me---!

 

Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Scheevel <jay@...>
To: main@JabCamit.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Jan 31, 2021 8:00 pm
Subject: Re: [JabCamit] EarthX Battery

Hi John,

 

You still need to have the voltage around 14 volts in flight (even cruise), or the battery will slowly discharge. 13.9 volts is the topped up voltage for the EarthX.

 

Here are the specs from the EarthX literature. Have a look at the line that says “Standard Charge Voltage”. Do you have an ammeter to see which way the current is going (into the battery or out of it)?.

Here is a snap of my EFIS in cruise (Battery Volts and Amps are in the center on bar graphs). Positive amps on my ammeter means that the battery is either charged or is currently charging with the alternator is working properly. When the alternator is off or not working the ammeter goes to zero and I get a warning announcement,. From that time everything is running on the batteries and I have to start looking for an airport (It should run about 1.5 hours on charged batteries and no alternator current).  

 

The 14 amps is my standard current draw with all of my electrical goodies turned on and batteries fully charged.

 

Jay

 

From: main@JabCamit.groups.io <main@JabCamit.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Miller via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2021 4:40 PM
To: main@JabCamit.groups.io
Subject: Re: [JabCamit] EarthX Battery

 

Good news!

After letting it charge on the Batter Tender Jr. The batter was up to 13.4 and the engine started right up with OAT at low 50s.

I ran the engine while monitoring the voltage indication on my Dynon. 

I did this with no avionics on. The voltage drop at 1500 RPM.en turned on avionics and as usual saw about a .1-,2 vots.

Took it up and while climbing voltage went to 14.6 and then in cruise it dropped slightly to 13.4 and stayed there. So it's OK...for now.

I believe there is a slight chance that a loose voltage regulator sense wire touched something it shouldn't have.

Many of us did a lot of searching on this battery and some have come away with less confidence inclding me.

I will most likely go back to the Odyssey and keep the EarthX in my baggage compartment  as back up for when I'm in the back country strips.

John M


glen english LIST
 

Jay, measured at the battery at 1500rpm+, do you know exactly what voltage you have ? just err 14+ is a bit variable.

yes, they are good at holding the voltage up for the EFIS through a start....

On 2/1/2021 12:59 PM, Jay Scheevel wrote:
I have been running mine for two years now and I have no complaints or problems with them, running at 14+ volts. I do not charge them between flights (sometimes up to a month), and have not had them fail to turn over the engine very strongly in all weather and temps (I do preheat my engine to minimum 60F), but the battery boxes are behind the cockpit, so they do not get preheat. They maintain enough voltage during the starter operation that the EFIS never falls below minimum voltage, so that is a plus, since I do not have a backup battery for the EFIS. All things considered, I would not change batteries, and would recommend them to others.