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Buying a plane with a Gen 2 2200, what to pay attention to?


wmax351@...
 

Hi Everyone,

I'm starting a small partnership in Albuquerque, NM USA and we're buying a BestOff Skyranger with a Jabiru 2200, serial 22A 2294. It's got Relatively low hours on it (has a failed Hobbs, so unknown exact hours, but probably under 100), and it runs really well. The A&P who I had do a pre-buy said it looked basically new, and based on records an A&P installed it (or at least assisted). No metal in the filter, compression is great, no other red flags to the Pre-buy A&P. The FWF is really professionally done. CHT's are very reasonable right now. 

Overall, the plane seems great, and for the price, a few issues are going to be fine (will need some work on the radio, needs the Hobbs fixed, etc). I know buying a Jabiru certainly may mean some mechanical work, but out of all mechanical work, my favorite is on engines, so not a big deal there, particularly with Jabiru parts prices and the ease of working on these. 

I do want to figure out what types of things I will need to pay attention to, and what to consider upgrading off the bat.  

Config wise, referencing the jabiru change list: (https://jabiru.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Summary-of-significant-engine-changes-May-09.pdf
- standard cam, high leak lifters, and solid pushrods.
- Heads are the large, coarse fins.
- Oil sump is short
- Oil cooler is in place. 
- Through bolts are 3/8", original type. I believe I will need to add the ARP nuts? We will then do Q25hr through bolt torque checks and propeller resistance/scale checks. 
- Carb has the 280 needle, 225 main, and 45 idle. 

Mods I may do off the bat: 
- Possibly Rotec electronic ignition for 1 of the 2 coils. 
- HACman mixture control, since we are operating at 6000msl. 

In terms of the through bolts, I am somewhat less concerned since we will never be developing full power given the altitude, but will still want to keep a close eye on it. Other than the through bolts, are there any major things I need to be aware of/change? 

Thanks,
Max






Lyle Passfield
 

Hello Max, 
I have a Gen 2 Jab 2.2, SN 3178 and am very happy with it; going fine over a decade, about 300 hrs.

You might consider installing the Jabiru Cold Start kit, which replaces the Honda coil on one side with their own unit. While cranking, the solenoid triggers this coil to provide a retarded spark at quite low revs, making winter starts much easier.

Mine cost under $300 Au and took a couple of hours to install.

Lyle

On Tue, 22 Dec 2020 at 12:05, <wmax351@...> wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I'm starting a small partnership in Albuquerque, NM USA and we're buying a BestOff Skyranger with a Jabiru 2200, serial 22A 2294. It's got Relatively low hours on it (has a failed Hobbs, so unknown exact hours, but probably under 100), and it runs really well. The A&P who I had do a pre-buy said it looked basically new, and based on records an A&P installed it (or at least assisted). No metal in the filter, compression is great, no other red flags to the Pre-buy A&P. The FWF is really professionally done. CHT's are very reasonable right now. 

Overall, the plane seems great, and for the price, a few issues are going to be fine (will need some work on the radio, needs the Hobbs fixed, etc). I know buying a Jabiru certainly may mean some mechanical work, but out of all mechanical work, my favorite is on engines, so not a big deal there, particularly with Jabiru parts prices and the ease of working on these. 

I do want to figure out what types of things I will need to pay attention to, and what to consider upgrading off the bat.  

Config wise, referencing the jabiru change list: (https://jabiru.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Summary-of-significant-engine-changes-May-09.pdf
- standard cam, high leak lifters, and solid pushrods.
- Heads are the large, coarse fins.
- Oil sump is short
- Oil cooler is in place. 
- Through bolts are 3/8", original type. I believe I will need to add the ARP nuts? We will then do Q25hr through bolt torque checks and propeller resistance/scale checks. 
- Carb has the 280 needle, 225 main, and 45 idle. 

Mods I may do off the bat: 
- Possibly Rotec electronic ignition for 1 of the 2 coils. 
- HACman mixture control, since we are operating at 6000msl. 

In terms of the through bolts, I am somewhat less concerned since we will never be developing full power given the altitude, but will still want to keep a close eye on it. Other than the through bolts, are there any major things I need to be aware of/change? 

Thanks,
Max






Rob Turk
 

Hi Max,

I'd investigate for corrosion, the engine is propable 12+ years old and has done only very few hours so it has been sitting idle for quite a while. If it's running well now and compression is good then you probably are in luck.

The only thing I'd attend to is the  flywheel bolts. There's a mod for them to remove the ones glued with Loctite620, replace them with the upgraded attach with Nordlock washers. The HACman might make sense, unless you always fly around 6000msl and up. In that case a retune of the needles might be just as effective.

I'd stay away from the Rotec kit. It gives a really strong spark, which is fine, but when your battery is weak it may do so too early on start, and cause a kickback. Hard on the mechanics, especially the start mechanism. The cold start kit that Lyle mentioned is a lot better for that.

The list of changes is out of date, I'm unsure why Jabiru still keeps that on their website. The most recent list is in the back of the overhaul manual (JEM0001-22 last time I looked)

Rob

On 12/22/2020 1:09 AM, wmax351@... wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I'm starting a small partnership in Albuquerque, NM USA and we're buying a BestOff Skyranger with a Jabiru 2200, serial 22A 2294. It's got Relatively low hours on it (has a failed Hobbs, so unknown exact hours, but probably under 100), and it runs really well. The A&P who I had do a pre-buy said it looked basically new, and based on records an A&P installed it (or at least assisted). No metal in the filter, compression is great, no other red flags to the Pre-buy A&P. The FWF is really professionally done. CHT's are very reasonable right now. 

Overall, the plane seems great, and for the price, a few issues are going to be fine (will need some work on the radio, needs the Hobbs fixed, etc). I know buying a Jabiru certainly may mean some mechanical work, but out of all mechanical work, my favorite is on engines, so not a big deal there, particularly with Jabiru parts prices and the ease of working on these. 

I do want to figure out what types of things I will need to pay attention to, and what to consider upgrading off the bat.  

Config wise, referencing the jabiru change list: (https://jabiru.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Summary-of-significant-engine-changes-May-09.pdf
- standard cam, high leak lifters, and solid pushrods.
- Heads are the large, coarse fins.
- Oil sump is short
- Oil cooler is in place. 
- Through bolts are 3/8", original type. I believe I will need to add the ARP nuts? We will then do Q25hr through bolt torque checks and propeller resistance/scale checks. 
- Carb has the 280 needle, 225 main, and 45 idle. 

Mods I may do off the bat: 
- Possibly Rotec electronic ignition for 1 of the 2 coils. 
- HACman mixture control, since we are operating at 6000msl. 

In terms of the through bolts, I am somewhat less concerned since we will never be developing full power given the altitude, but will still want to keep a close eye on it. Other than the through bolts, are there any major things I need to be aware of/change? 

Thanks,
Max







Mark Dunstone
 

Max, a lithium starting battery avoids the need for a cold start system.  I have no problems starting in sub-zero Celsius temperatures.  The first few blades are slow, but then the battery warms and the engine is cranking real fast.  Probably about the same price as a cold start kit, but you save quite a few kilograms too.

I concur with Rob in suggesting you read the Overhaul manual.  If you do the flywheel bolts be prepared for the tough job of removing the old bolts.  I followed the O’haul manual suggestion of using a heat gun and a brand new top quality Allen key, but I still felt it was ‘touch and go’ whether the bolt broke or loosened.


John Austin
 

My experience has be identical to Mark's. I use an EarthX lithium battery with my 3300 and in moderate temps it turns the engine over so fast it is almost like flipping the switch on an electric motor!  If it is cold, cranking warms the battery and then it spins the prop quickly.   I've never had a starting problem -ever.  I also agree it's nice the lithium battery shaves off another 9-10 lbs of weight, too - that goes straight to increasing useful load.


Rob Turk
 

Same here (AeroAkku LFP450D LiFePO4). I actually use this as a feature. When cold, I leave the fuel tap closed, then engage the starter. The first few blades are a bit slow, and I let it spin for about 10 seconds until oil pressure comes up. The engine is now carefully pre-oiled. Open the fuel tap, wait a few seconds, pull choke and starts on the first turn of the fast-spinning prop.

Rob

On 12/22/2020 3:19 PM, John Austin wrote:
My experience has be identical to Mark's. I use an EarthX lithium battery with my 3300 and in moderate temps it turns the engine over so fast it is almost like flipping the switch on an electric motor!  If it is cold, cranking warms the battery and then it spins the prop quickly.   I've never had a starting problem -ever.  I also agree it's nice the lithium battery shaves off another 9-10 lbs of weight, too - that goes straight to increasing useful load.


Jay Scheevel
 

I do the same, but I have other accessories that “warm up” the battery while the EFIS boots up (water pumps, fuel pumps,avionics etc.). I have two EarthX batteries and they are capable of turning the engine 1000 rpm, as soon as I press the starter. Voltage never drops low enough to even make the EFIS flicker.  

 

Jay

 

From: main@JabCamit.groups.io <main@JabCamit.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rob Turk
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2020 7:40 AM
To: main@JabCamit.groups.io
Subject: Re: [JabCamit] Buying a plane with a Gen 2 2200, what to pay attention to?

 

Same here (AeroAkku LFP450D LiFePO4). I actually use this as a feature. When cold, I leave the fuel tap closed, then engage the starter. The first few blades are a bit slow, and I let it spin for about 10 seconds until oil pressure comes up. The engine is now carefully pre-oiled. Open the fuel tap, wait a few seconds, pull choke and starts on the first turn of the fast-spinning prop.

Rob

On 12/22/2020 3:19 PM, John Austin wrote:

My experience has be identical to Mark's. I use an EarthX lithium battery with my 3300 and in moderate temps it turns the engine over so fast it is almost like flipping the switch on an electric motor!  If it is cold, cranking warms the battery and then it spins the prop quickly.   I've never had a starting problem -ever.  I also agree it's nice the lithium battery shaves off another 9-10 lbs of weight, too - that goes straight to increasing useful load.

 


John Miller
 

While in Idaho back country with oat at 30 F I noticed that when trying to start it took 3 tries.

Each time the voltage on Earthx battery would drop from 13.2 to 12.5. Then I could see the voltage increase back to 13.2.

Of course each try built oil pressure.

When all else fails I use Spray Start.

John M



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Rob Turk <r.turk@...>
Date: 12/22/20 6:40 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: main@JabCamit.groups.io
Subject: Re: [JabCamit] Buying a plane with a Gen 2 2200, what to pay attention to?

Same here (AeroAkku LFP450D LiFePO4). I actually use this as a feature. When cold, I leave the fuel tap closed, then engage the starter. The first few blades are a bit slow, and I let it spin for about 10 seconds until oil pressure comes up. The engine is now carefully pre-oiled. Open the fuel tap, wait a few seconds, pull choke and starts on the first turn of the fast-spinning prop.

Rob

On 12/22/2020 3:19 PM, John Austin wrote:
My experience has be identical to Mark's. I use an EarthX lithium battery with my 3300 and in moderate temps it turns the engine over so fast it is almost like flipping the switch on an electric motor!  If it is cold, cranking warms the battery and then it spins the prop quickly.   I've never had a starting problem -ever.  I also agree it's nice the lithium battery shaves off another 9-10 lbs of weight, too - that goes straight to increasing useful load.


wmax351@...
 

Thanks, that's useful. 

The engine was fogged and turned through intermittently with re-oiling during it's life in a hangar. And compression is perfect. So seems to be fine. 

In terms of the cam, is there any reason to go back to solid lifters? Sounds like it's just a matter of using small-block chevy solid lifters to replace the hydraulic ones (and obviously using different rockers). It has the original type of cam, and I have heard that the different lobe geometry contributes to the fretting of the cases/through bolt issues. As well as the chance for a pump-up of the lifters and valve collision. Might be overthinking it though. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC9sWdhUdsA

I like the idea of the lithium battery. Will definitely pick one of those up for winter. 


glen english LIST
 

" It has the original type of cam, and I have heard that the different lobe geometry contributes to the fretting of the cases/through bolt issues. "

My suggestions :

Ensure you get the correct tension on the thru bolts. Ensure thru bolt thrust flange on the cylinder is flat and doesn't have a edge on one side. (explained well elsewhere) .
Use correct thread lube (ultra torque) from ARP and measure the thru bolt stetch directly across the top of the engine with a vernier.

On 3/23/2021 12:15 PM, wmax351@gmail.com wrote:
It has the original type of cam, and I have heard that the different lobe geometry contributes to the fretting of the cases/through bolt issues.


wmax351@...
 

That's definitely on our to do list.

In terms of the pump up and valve interference issues with the cam and hydraulic lifters, is that something I should realistically worry about?